You can tell the difference from the outside by looking at the valve cover. Clevo will pull like an 18 year old boy. The cleveland block (351) is smaller than the Windsor block overall. The 351M was essentially a destroked version of the 400 c.i.d . Timing Chain. The 351 Cleveland was built to be a performance engine, but they went overboard :tongue: boosted331. The cleveland was made to be a 351. Ford Windsor crankshaft location of the crank gear is about .005″ smaller than the Cleveland. The shape of the valve covers is a quick way, the Cleveland covers are "square" at the ends, the Windsor is tapered. 351Cleveland . Different harmonic balancer and flexplate than 351C. Leave 1/4 inch between stud and bottom. The 351W is an expanded version of the 90° V8 series of engines that include the 221, 260, 289, and 302. Cleveland vs. Windsor Crankshaft The bottom crankshaft is a Cleveland, notice the spacer in front of the main journal. Watch the full episode right now on MotorTrend! if your limiting yourself to such small cubes then go Windsor, smaller lighter and cheaper for parts, the Cleveland is still a full size block compared to the Windsor. I would use Cleveland What are the major differences between the 351 cleveland and 351 Windsor . The 400 replaced the Ford 390, and it was designed for good acceleration for medium to heavy vehicles. The 351 Cleveland develops more power in stock form, but the Windsor can be built to make just as much power. Véhicule. Other than minor cylinder head updates over its 18 years of service in NASCAR, the basic Windsor block configuration has remained unchanged. The 351W (Windsor) valve covers are attached with 6 bolts, straight front to rear, and narrow in width (similar to the 302 c.i. porknbeaner, Mar 18, 2015 SHARE POST #3 Crazy Steve Member from Beautiful outer Yelm WA May 7, 2014. so if you use the same heads on both motors what is the. 9.200" deck height C, 9.48,9.503" on Windsor. The. It just was rushed out to meet the Trans-Am needs early. the 350 WINS . Debuting in the 1962 model-year, it's reign lasted until the following century-the last Windsor engine rolled off the line for the 2001 Ford Explorer. The Cleveland's connecting rods were shorter than the Windsor's, too, at 5.78 inches versus 5.96 inches--short rods equal better acceleration. Ford took the 400 engine's tall-deck block and de-stroked it with a shorter 3.5 in (89 mm) stroke crankshaft . Windsor valve covers use 6-bolt covers, whereas the Cleveland/Modified uses 8-bolt covers. Jan 9, 2007. The "Cleveland" and "Modified" engines are all part of the "335 Series" engine family. means very piston speed which limits maximum RPM and a smaller bore. Heads are identical in design to 351-2V, but have larger chambers to reduce compression, may also have air injection ports. The combustion chambers are filled with a 2.150-inch, 7mm-stem titanium intake valve, and a 1.60-inch, 7mm-stem titanium exhaust valve. Neither is better. Similar to the Ford 351 Windsor V8, the Cleveland had smaller connecting rods to allow for a more rapid acceleration. ford 351 windsor vs modified-351 Small Block Dyno Shootout: Windsor vs Cleveland - HorsePower S16, E11, , OnAllCylinders Podcast — Powered by Summit Racing As for sheer numbers produced . FORUMS; FORUM GUIDELINES . Production continues in America until the late 1990s, when it was replaced by the OHC-modular V8 series. LS vs. Windsor In fact, Ford is still running Cleveland heads in NASCAR. Cleveland/Modified engines have the timing chain recessed into the front of the block itself, and its timing cover is essentially just a flat piece of metal. You can spot the difference pretty easily by looking at the front of the engine. The Cleveland had the best flowing heads for a SB Ford before aftermarket heads, thats what made them great motors pre 1990s. The pointer is also showing the band that is .005″ larger. Essence. Windsors have a wet intake while Cleveland and M have a dry intakes. . That may rule out the vintage HO 302 (boss). B&A Ford has intakes, and you are good to go. Both the Ford 351 and the Chevrolet 350 are excellent engines. You can spot the difference pretty easily by looking at the front of the engine. History. The 400 was used in many applications over the years. taller to allow for a longer Stroke . A: To the eternal bane of automotive parts people everywhere, Ford has made not one, but three 351 cubic inch engines: the Cleveland, the Windsor (Ontario), and the Modified. The low-deck Cleveland block was more compact than the 351 Windsor, and the Boss used four-bolt main caps, as well as forged, shot-peened and magnafluxed connecting rods with 3/8 rod bolts. Ford Mustang 1970 351 Cleveland . This is where the crank gear locates. by a large margin. I understand the M code is the 4V and H code is the 2V 351W in 1969. This engine family began production in late 1969 with a 351 cu . . The . Back in the 70's the Windsor was not considered a perfomance engine at all. Ford Windsor crankshaft location of the crank gear is about .005″ smaller than the Cleveland. The main difference between the blocks was the Deck Height . The low-performance 400 was designed for torque . Pair of 351 Small Blocks: Windsor vs Cleveland - HorsePower S16, E10 LOW$-JUNKYARD 351W-BETTER THAN 5.0L?Add an Extra 100HP to a Ford Windsor - Engine Power S6, E8 302 VS . Ford Windsor, Muncie, Cleveland, Which Is Better. Apply moly coat to provide lubrication and an accurate torque reading. Cleveland vs Windsor. The Cleveland engine was designed and built from the ground up as a racing engine. Boss 302 Cleveland/Windsor small-block hybrid: The Boss 302 engine was a 351 Cleveland cylinder head bolted onto a Windsor short-block, making the first "Clevor" hybrid. The Cleveland is a big block, more high performance. 31, as Freiburger, Dulcich and Steve Brule pit the 351 Ford Windsor. . ok, a windsor with the same comp, displacement, and the same heads as a cleveland, yes i mean a windsor using cleveland heads. Share. Windsor will scream like an 18 year old girl. History Ford debuted the 351 Windsor in the 1969 Ford Mustang Mach 1 with both two-barrel and four-barrel carburetor configurations. The reason the Windsor is king of the aftermarket and not the Cleveland (even though the Cleveland does have a healthy . The answer was to increase the stroke and bump displacement by nearly 50 cubes, giving the 351 the first part of its name. This ^^^ is exactly what I would have told you. engine. Using. 00 Lincoln Electric AC/DC Arc Welder. 08-25-2003, 12:38 AM. Bush Performance Engines brings back the Clevor engine which mates the large intake ports of the 351 Cleveland heads to the 289/302/351W blocks, brought to you by Mustang & Fords Magazine. Thick and it plugs into a 115-Volt, 20 Amp outlet. Ford Windsor V8. Us Ford guys have a half dozen Windsor displacements, all the 385-series "big-blocks," 10 or so FE engines and a few 335-series Cleveland "small-blocks" to keep straight. Thread starter bsnake; Start date Sep 10, 2004; Sep 10, 2004 #2 B. bsnake New member. The Windsor and the Cleveland both use a small block bellhousing pattern. Localisation du. I am toying around with the thought of stroking one of these. At the end of the 1960s Ford was seeking a way to increase the torque produced by its 302 cubic inch V8 without having to spend a lot of money developing a new engine. if your limiting yourself to such small cubes then go Windsor, smaller lighter and cheaper for parts, the Cleveland is still a full size block compared to the Windsor. The Ford 335 engine family was a group of engines built by the Ford Motor Company between 1969 and 1982. Answer (1 of 11): Though both the 351 small blocks had 4.380" bore centers, the same 4.000" bore x 3.500" stroke, and 0.875" lifters, the engines are quite distinct from one another. . Windsor valve covers use 6-bolt covers, whereas the Cleveland/Modified uses 8-bolt covers. Buy COMP Cams 8931-2 Retro-Fit Hydraulic Roller Lifter for Small Block Ford 289-302/351 Windsor Non-Roller Engines - Pair: . On a 302 (or smaller c.i.d.) Fun Fact. The main difference between the blocks was the Deck Height . While the four-barrel Cleveland heads certainly out-flowed their 351 Windsor counterparts, modifications were necessary to perform the Cleveland-Windsor head swap. Chevy 454 Vs. Ford 460 Throwdown - Horsepower S13, E13 Building the Lightning 351 - Start to Finish . The 351M was essentially a destroked version of the 400 c.i.d . Engine Differences: The most obvious external difference is the engine valve covers. . Windsor vs Cleveland Page 5 of 5 [ 64 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3 . For example, there are at least three common 351 ci engine variants to know — the 351 Windsor, 351 Cleveland and 351 Modified. The best 302 is the windsor as i was made to be a 302. but if you can fit a Cleveland then go a 351c. 26 800 € - Assurance. Windsor vs Cleveland - Ford Modifications Website HOME; FORUMS. In 1991, Ford switched from the Cleveland-based small-block V-8 to the venerable 351 "Windsor" engine. The Ford Windsor plant is located in Windsor, Ontario and produced the 4.6L motors for Mustangs from 1999-2001.The Windsor engine can be distinguished from Romeo blocks by looking for a "W" stamp on the block. The 351C was replaced by the 351M in 1975. 351 Clevelands were great in their time but the Windsor wins hands down nowdays. taller to allow for a longer Stroke . Use engine oil sparingly on stud threads; however, never fi ll the bolt hole with oil, which can crack the block. This is like the old debate " Chocolate VS Vanilla ". since the production of the 351 Windsor was not sufficient. These Ford V8 engines are lighter and narrower than the Chevy V8 engines, however they are about 1.5" longer than the Chevy V8. I have been told the block is different such as 4 bolt mains and extra webbing and another was the heads are different. 67 289 GTA Dec 20 1966 San Jose cragar62 Registered Joined Sep 28, 2018 97 Posts ford 351 windsor vs modified-351 Small Block Dyno Shootout: Windsor vs Cleveland - HorsePower S16, E11, , OnAllCylinders Podcast — Powered by Summit Racing engine, starting in 1971. Windsor vs Cleveland - Ford Modifications Website. heads a set of header's or 4v aghaust manifolds and a cam with 225 intake 235 aghaust duration @.050 and there's your 400hp and no clevelands are not big blocks although they are called that a. 9 posts Windsor 351 vs. 351 Cleveland Windsor 351 vs. 351 Cleveland. More races have been won with 350 Chevrolet engine than with 351 Ford engine . The Windsor engines became the backbone of Ford's V8 lineup in the 1970s when other Ford V8 engines were discontinued. Before the avalanche of Windsor heads, if you really wanted to go fast with a Windsor Ford, you performed the necessary modifications to install a set of 351 Cleveland heads on it. The second—Windsor, or 'W'—referred to the Ontario . Take a 351 windsor block, drill a new water hole in the head, and stick a freeze plug in the old one, and the heads bolt right on. The 351 Cleveland lasted longer than some, giving the 1970-73 Mustang a robust gallop while becoming a semi-legend among Ford buffs. The Ford small-block (aka Windsor V8) is a series of 90° overhead valve small block V8 automobile engines built by the Ford Motor Company from July 1961 to 2002.. )* The 351C (Cleveland) valve covers are attached with 8 bolts, flat The 351C was replaced by the 351M in 1975. The Mustang first offered a 351-cubic-inch small-block V-8 in 1969. Before a 351C block can be line-honed, torque the main studs. Énergie. In 1970, just one year after introducing the 351 Windsor, Ford introduced the 351 Cleveland—an entirely different engine from the Windsor, but also displacing 351 cubic inches. Horsepower ratings were 250 at 4,600 rpm for the two-barrel, and 300 at 5,400 rpm for the four-barrel, 10 more than the 1969 351W four-barrel. Part 2 of HorsePower's dual Ford 351 project, as the guys complete the build of a Cleveland engine and then turn their attention to the Windsor engine. Apr 30, 2008. Like previous posters have said, it produced more power and featured many design improvements over the windsor. The "Cleveland" and "Modified" engines are all part of the "335 Series" engine family. Visual Difference. The Ford 351 Cleveland engine was introduced in 1970 as a response to the Chevrolet 350 V8 engine. The best 302 is the windsor as i was made to be a 302. B blueoval boosted sleeper TECHNICAL DOCUMENTS; DYNO REGISTRY; QUARTER MILE REGISTRY; SEARCH; CONTACT; LOGIN; Home » Forums » Fordmods Tech » V8 Workshop. These en. The Windsor is a small block, basically an enlarged 289. Unfortunately, Ford developed the Cleveland right when the Muscle Car Era was fading due to emissions regulations tightening and insurance rates rising. 351 Windsor vs 302. blocks, the distributor mount is almost flush with the top of the block . Interestingly, the 351C four-barrel's rated torque . The Cleveland (351C) has the small 300/302/351W bell housing pattern. They also built the 400 c.i.d. 351 Windsor vs. 351 Cleveland. The Ford 400 engine was based on the 351 Cleveland. As for differences the Cleveland amd Windsor had a SB bellhousing bolt pattern while the 351M had a 429-460 pattern. Cleveland Tech. Never made in the US. The FE has a larger bore and shorter stroke (4.23" bore by 3.78" stroke). The bore and stroke were each 4.0 inches. In Australia, the 302 is from the Cleveland family! The Ford Windsor Small Block Engine Family > Windsor 351 vs. 351 Cleveland. Pistons have thicker compression height to maintain compression a 8.2:1 in the tall deck. It came with a 4-barrel carburetor and a larger cam. The 351 . 1970 Cougar, 3660 lbs 418W, C6, 3.50 posi, slicks & street trim On a 302 (or smaller c.i.d.) Ford built the 351C engine between 1969-74. . Cleveland vs. Windsor Crankshaft. Windsor heads can be distinguished by a 13/14 bolt valve . The Windsor engine is a 90-degree small-block V8 from Ford Motor Company.It was introduced in 1962, replacing the old Ford Y-block engine.Though not all of the engines in this family were produced at the Windsor, Ontario engine plant (all Ford small blocks came from Cleveland, Ohio until 1966), the name stuck. In 1969 Ford launched the Ford 400, a pushrod V8 built off of the 351 Cleveland which uses a 4.0in bore and stroke with 402 cubic inches of displacement, making it a 6.6L engine. Windsor engine characteristics. 2 bolts: 239/256/272/292/312 (produced from 1954 to 1964) . Jump to Latest Follow 1 - 20 of 27 Posts . Share with: Link: Copy link. The Cleveland parts are more expensive and harder to come by. Clevo will pull like an 18 year old boy. This is where the crank gear locates. Known as the 351 Windsor—for Ford's Windsor, Ontario, engine plant—it was . The 351 HO is just a Windsor engine with higher performance parts. Ford 351 Cleveland vs. 351/400 Modified. READ BEFORE YOU POST !!!! The 351 M-code is not to be mistaken with the 351M engine. The Cleveland title was given due to its manufacturing location of Cleveland, Ohio. The main difference between small block 221 260 289 302 351W and 351C bellhousings is the with the flywheel size. The Ford 302 (5.0 liter) small block is in the same family as the 351, and it can often be hard to distinguish the two. It also became a formidable force in Pro Stock drag racing. Named for the Ohio city where it was produced, the 351 Cleveland was expected to be Ford's most innovative small-block engine. The bottom crankshaft is a Cleveland, notice the spacer in front of the main journal. Prix TTC d' occasion. • 3.99″ bore as delivered, cast iron sleeves capable of 4.125". Comparing Ford Small block Bellhousing starter position . Kilométrage. The "335" designation reflected Ford management's decision to produce an engine of that size (335 cubic inches) with room for expansion during its development. blocks, the distributor mount is almost flush with the top of the block . The power and torque curves would be different, but the Gt-40's output range could easily be changed with a different roller cam and matching springs. D. D K. Windsor will scream like an 18 year old girl. In 1975 Ford took this 400 engine and de-stroked it while shortening the crankshaft stroke to make a 5.8L . Lack of information on Ford 351 engine differences. It had a half-inch (12.7 mm) longer stroke than the 351 Cleveland, making it the longest-stroke Ford pushrod V8 engine. The pointer is also showing the band that is .005″ larger. Mar 2, 2020 The only difference that I'm aware of is for 1967 where, if I recall correctly, Windsor was ahead of Cleveland, measured in months, for the next change level which changed the thermactor air distribution from external air logs to internal passages. From 1969 until 1982, Ford produced a 5.8L, 351 cubic inch V8 called the 351 Cleveland. Up top, are a set of Ford Motorsports C302 cylinder heads, which have been worked over by Roush-Yates Racing. Depending on what chamber size you use, cheap flattop pistons can be used, but should be flycut for the cleveland valves. Small Block Ford V8 engines popularly include the 260, 289, 302, and 351 cubic inch engines. Break for 4 minutes. Automatique. . Cylinder heads . Visual Difference. Enter the 351 Windsor. The cleveland was made to be a 351. History. Joined Sep 10, 2004 Messages 2 The quickest way of differentiating between the different familys of Ford engines is to simply count the valve cover bolts. Ford 351 Cleveland vs. 351/400 Modified. Cleveland/Modified engines have the timing chain recessed into the front of the block itself, and its timing cover is essentially just a flat piece of metal. 157 054 km Boîte de vitesse. Annonce Ford Mustang 1970 351 Cleveland Le Havre Informations générales. For use with Lincoln Electric's Weld-Pak 100HD, Weld-Pak 3200HD, SP-135T, SP-175T and others. The 351 blocks were as much as 1.300 in. 157 and 164 tooth are the 2 versions of flywheels and each flywheel requires a specific bellhousing. This extra length presents a problem when doing a conversion on the Pre-1972, 80" or 81" wheelbase Jeeps.